Monday, October 13, 2008

Christians for Obama

I was cruising my Facebook page the other day and I came across something that I found troubling, at least to me. I noticed that someone that I know of and have respected from a distance has decided that they are supporting Barack Obama for president.

I know what you are probably thinking, come on Todd, all you ever do is talk about politics, can't you just give it a rest. I am feeling that way myself! I want to start to think about other things too.

I wish I could just forget about this...but for me, there is too much at stake in this election. When I see someone, who at least in my mind, should know the seriousness of what is on the line in this election, out there for Obama, I just have to ask why that is.

I don't want to pick any fights, I don't want to judge if anyone is a real authentic Christian or not...there have been times in my life where I did not feel very authentic myself. I have done enough judging and been judged enough..that I don’t want this to come across that way.

I am just trying to understand. I want to hear the other side. I am not so set in my ways that I can't listen and consider what other people have to say. Maybe I can learn something. I sure don’t have all the answers, just ask anyone close to me.

First, my perspective. To me, in order to support Obama, and cast your vote for him, you really have to leave the faith you claim at the door of the voting booth. Unless my understanding of being a follower of Christ is completely wrong, in which case, I have some real problems myself that I need to iron out.

It just can’t be for no reason, that people out there, people that we can be pretty sure don’t share our Christian faith, support Obama. The Larry Flynt’s, the Bill Maher’s, the Hugh Hefner’s of the world, they all are endorsing Barack Obama. Does that not speak volumes to you..it sure does to me.

Never in my life have I seen the lines been drawn so clearly between two candidates. The question of life and the issue of abortion are very important to me. I know I have brought this up before, in detail, and yes, I am unusually focused on this issue. Please indulge me further.

There is one candidate who believes that the question of when life begins says it’s above his pay grade, meaning he does not know or does not want to think about it. There is another candidate who stated without a moment’s hesitation that life begins at the very moment of conception.

Let’s also get one presupposition on the table right now. (A presupposition is the beginning point for someone’s worldview). If you don’t believe in God, Jesus Christ or have a Biblical worldview, your presuppositions are different from mine. If you are an atheist or a Buddhist or anything else, we are using two totally different measuring devices and we cannot come to any sort of understanding. In that case, we probably should just agree to disagree.

My presupposition or starting point is my belief in the Biblical God and his son Jesus Christ. My definition of a true authentic Christian is someone who trusts in the Lord Jesus as his savior, understands that without a personal relationship with him, he or she will not reach our ultimate goal, life with him in Heaven. There is no middle ground here, no substitutions and no compromise to my worldview. So if you don't believe these two things, you can stop reading because we can never agree on a starting point.

If you do believe these two things, than you also should believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. It was given to us as a guidebook to God's thoughts and feelings and requirements for our lives. If you don't believe that the Bible is inspired and completely and without question 100 percent true and accurate, you can also stop reading now.

However, if you believe all three of these things, our presuppositions on God and faith in Jesus Christ are probably, basically the same.

Now if our worldviews are basically the same, and we are starting from the same point, but you are supporting Barack Obama, I am talking to you I suppose. After saying that you believe these three basic truths, please, please explain to me how this is possible. I really want to know..because if I am missing something, I need to understand, I want to understand.

To me, the single most telling sign of a person’s worldview is his or her stance on abortion. I am not a one issue voter; there are many other things that concern me as well, gun control, taxes, and foreign policy. All these things however are secondary to me, and someone could still share my worldview and believe that raising taxes is ok. None of these things really matter Biblically in the grand scheme of things I don’t feel. But abortion is the litmus test for me to into someone’s true character.

There is no doubt in Gods word as I understand it, that children are important to God. If you are reading this far into my post, you understand the Bible better than I do probably. David talks about how we were known to God before our birth, we are beautifully and wonderfully made. Jesus tells us that if we harm a child, it would be better to have a millstone thrown around our necks and dropped in the water. There are many other verses and passages that speak to the miracle of birth, children...you know them, you have read them.

Liberals have done a good job with their assertions that they are the real champions of the poor, the downtrodden, and the weak. Jesus was indeed concerned about these things as well. He was a friend to the weak, the oppressed. So should we be concerned about them as well. Conservatives have not done a good job shaking the label that all they care about is money, the rich, big business at the expense of the poor, and the environment. I don't want to argue that, because frankly, I do believe that conservatives have some work to do there. But..consider this…

Who is without question the weakest of all...I would say unborn babies. What can they do to defend themselves? Nothing. If you do believe the word of God and what it has to say about us, being made in Gods image, all with a purpose and a reason for living, I believe there is no other conclusion than to believe that these fetuses are real people. Real people, just smaller and basically helpless. They are made after the image of the one true God. It does not matter if they were not wanted or expected. Heck, I was not wanted or expected. The circumstances of our birth are beyond our control, but I bet that most of you reading this are pretty glad you were born regardless of those circumstances.
So unborn babies are really people with rights, they are not just tissue. If you need visual proof , just look at a modern 3D ultrasound picture. They are in my estimation, people.

You can disagree when personhood happens. I think at the moment of conception myself, as does John McCain.. You could argue when brain waves start I suppose. You could argue that when the heart starts beating a guess…but I won’t argue that because I don’t think that is really truly debatable and knowable. But, when you don’t know something, I believe that is a reason to be extra cautious. We need to ere on the side of caution when dealing with something as profound and unique as the life question is. So the safe place to start is conception, it’s the only absolute knowable variant to this question. Anything else is a guess. One thing I do know is that no matter what stage of a pregnancy an abortion is done, its ending life.

Getting back to what I said previously, I would think that if you really believe that the issues of the poor, helpless, and weak are important and should be addressed, why you would not follow that conclusion to its ultimate end. Liberals are concerned about the planet, as we all should be; they are concerned about animal rights, as we all should be. But how did unborn children get overlooked? It's quite the paradox to me. .

Barack Obama is by all accounts not pro-life. He has one of the most liberal and dare I say vile voting records out there on the issue of abortion. He voted 3 times against a measure to provide medical coverage to babies born alive after a botched abortion attempt. Many of these babies were not going to survive outside the womb, but some may have. Babies have been born and survived that were barely as old as 25 or 26 weeks.

Please, don't just blow that off...think about it. A baby is born alive, possibly burned by a chemical induced abortion, maybe missing arms or legs from a botched D and C. And that baby is put into a bucket, alive and kicking, trying to communicate its pain to someone. The doctors and nurses walk away and close the door. That baby slowly bleeds to death, or slowly suffocates, or dies of hypothermia. Think about your own children. What would you do if your own child was treated like that? It’s inhumane and it’s plain evil to treat an animal like that, but a human being? Yet Obama votes against any measure that would even ease the pain and suffering of such a baby, let alone work to save her life.

I really could go on…but this post is already way too long for most people to want to read. We don’t even have to discuss how liberals view the family structure, how they view the institution of marriage. None of its Biblical is it? But let’s not even go there for sake of my sore typing fingers.

I just want someone to give me a clear answer, if you are a Christian, please tell me how you came to your conclusion that a vote for Obama is in line with what we know about the nature of Jesus Christ, his compassion for the weak and helpless, his views on the family, marriage, the church as a whole? Tell me how the democratic agenda is closer to the true nature of Jesus Christ. While feeding and clothing the poor are important, while housing the homeless is important. We all can agree that we all should do a better job in these things…myself included. But, how can we just look the other way when the abortion clinics are still open, when whole generations of people, made in the very image of God, are denied the chance to live for the sake of our own convenience.

I am glad that someone talked to my own unwed mother, talked her out of what she was going to do in July of 1973. I am here now, have a great family, two beautiful children, a loving and beautiful wife, only because someone decided to speak up instead of looking the other way. Don’t look the other way…don’t say to all the unborn children out there, sorry we needed a change, or sorry but I just don’t like Bush, or sorry but the economy is more important than you right now.

If you are a Christian and you are still on the fence, listen to that still small voice inside you. A vote for Obama is a vote against what you really believe, and I think you know it.

14 comments:

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
kyperman said...

Dear anonymous:

You did not read my post very closely did you? I was making a concerted attempt to say that I was not trying to be judgemental, I was just trying to understand...and you said nothing to help me.

I am a Biblical Christian first, a Reagan conservative second and a Republican third, and I am only a Republican cause there is currently no Conservative party....

You mention that your heart is what makes you a true Christian, I could not agree more, which is why I don't understand why your heart does not bleed for the unborn...you don't seem to care about them and what is going on...you would rather tell me about Rich Mullins, or ask me to read Blue Jazz.

Thank you for your input, I am glad you read my post and found time to comment on it. Maybe you should re-read it more closely and next time you comment, include your name, that's only polite.

I am glad you are taking food to a needy family, my wife does that as well...my wife also has volunteered her time at Right to Life...making phone calls for support...you can do both.

I will pray for you, that God will give you wisdom..as I pray this for myself every day. T

here is a right and wrong in this world, abortion is wrong, and if Barack Obama supports it, he is wrong, and if you vote for him, you are wrong.

God Bless

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
kyperman said...

I will no longer read comments left anonymously. Thanks.

val said...

hi todd,

i read your whole post! :)

i agree that this is a very important issue, and i can understand why it means so much to you personally.

just thought i'd mention an article i linked to from my blog the other day that i think relates to what you are talking about. i thought it was interesting and expressed a lot of the reasons i have personally been struggling to know how to vote in this election.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0811&article=the-meaning-of-life

another question i have been thinking about, which maybe you can help me out with, is: in the past 8 years, what has it meant on the topic of abortion that we have had a "pro-life" president? is it more than just his ideology, like has it changed the statistics and realities at all of how many abortions are taking place? is it a matter of overturning roe v. wade...(i honestly don't know, that's why i'm asking... maybe i don't listen to dobson enough) :)

vXo_fv4dl867x1cnM9OzJR97HdOEHVBA.zFa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
kyperman said...

Val,

Thanks for you reply and thanks for reading the whole thing, it was long I know...I hate long posts, but when you have a lot to say...

The last part of your question first. I am not happy with Bush on a lot of levels, most of all, he spent TOO MUCH MONEY...it was like a kid at a candy store, and the Republicans are supposed to be the party of small government.

I think that is why you and many other people are having such a hard time this year, cause Bush has been dissapointing on so many levels.

BUT. the one good thing he did is put two very good judges on the supreme court. Alito and Roberts were both wonderful choices. They have tipped the balance of the supreme court a little more toward even. The next president will likely choose two more justices...if that president is Obama, those judges will be liberal. That would mean that any chance that we have to repeal Roe V Wade will likely be pushed back another 30 years. How many babies will be aborted in 30 years!!

If the Life issue is at all important to you, you need to weight both options very carefully and give it a lot of thought and prayer.

Thanks Val...
God Bless

kyperman said...

Listen people, I will not respond to posts that are vile, gross or mean to me or anyone else, especially my faith. If you choose to leave these types of messages they will be deleted.

If you want honest debate or discussion, than post away.

Terri said...

Hey Todd,

I saw a bumper sticker the other day... it said "Pro-life; Pro-Obama". I don't get it. It's an oxi-moron. I'm with you completely on this one. I'm very frustrated with this same issue as well. I differ with some close friends on this and it's really hard -- every election year. It all goes back to God's Word and the truth written there. It's really quite simple, I think. We all need to get back to that truth -- read and study our Bibles more, listen to God's voice and stop listening to people's opinion, literature and the media. Neither party is great here, but I do think one is a "better" option. As my pastor said, when Evan and I were talking to him about this same thing, "You can't be a conservative liberal."

Thanks for sharing. Thank God that He's in control... just like in the book of Daniel. "He sets up kings and deposes them..."

Love you guys.
Terri

Terri said...

Let me correct my quote from my pastor... "You can't be conservative about the Bible and vote liberal."

Sorry. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't mis-quoting...

Matt said...

Hi Todd,

I wanted to reply to your post, as I am a Christian and am planning on voting for Obama. I completely agree with you (as I'm sure any Christian would) that abortion is wrong. But my thought process is this: why does being pro-life only seem to be important for unborn American children? I believe that God loves all of his children and that includes all of the innocent Afghanistan and Iraqi men, women and children that have been killed by our hands. Their deaths are no different than the deaths of the unborn - there aren't multiple levels of wrong in the murder of innocents; they are equally wrong in my mind. I believe that Obama will pursue peace more vigorously than McCain and I pray that will lead to fewer innocent lives being taken. As for abortion - it is something that has torn at me for over 20 years. I pray that our country could come to the conclusion that it is wrong and should be illegal - unfortunately I don't see that happening. What I have chosen to do is treat those around me with the love and grace that God has shown me. My hope is that this will bring God into their life and if they can give their hearts to Him, they won't have premarital sex and won't have to ever consider an abortion.

I hope that doesn't sound too hippy-dippy and groovy (I'm not a child of the 60's...honest). If what I'm saying makes no sense I'd suggest checking out Brent Bourgeois' website where he has written a very interesting book about being Christian and leaning left (it's currently available for free on the website, but it appears he has found a publisher and it will be taken off soon). The site is: http://www.brentbourgeois.com/index.cfm and it probably speaks much more eloquently about this and other issues than I ever could.

Love and Mercy,
Matt

kyperman said...

Matt,

First of all, thanks for leaving a name, I would much rather address Matt, than anonymous.

I am happy to respond to your post, I would hope I would be able to change your mind on who to vote for, but you seem pretty set to vote for Obama.

I fully sympathize with your convictions and am glad that you feel so much for the Iraqi people and the rest of people in harms way over there. I think we can all agree that war in general is not a good thing and sometimes innocent people do get caught up in it.

I wonder if perhaps your logic in comparing the two situations is not flawed.

I don't know that we really know how many people were hurt or killed by the results of our actions in Iraq, lets say 100,000, which is A LOT..and I hate that it happened. But forget about the WMD'S for a minute, how many lives would have been lost if we had not taken Saddam out of power? It's estimated that he killed up to 2 million of his own people over the years. You could say in reality that by doing nothing, more lives would have been lost. I know for a fact the Iraqi people are better off now than under Saddam.

If we are looking at raw numbers, how many babies have been aborted since 1973? Millions and Millions...there are more babies aborted every year than lives lost in Iraq since we went there. That is a real holocaust.

Lastly, have you taken the time to notice the kind of people that you are aligning yourself with by voting for Obama. Do me a favor and go lurk at a website called "The Democratic Underground", and read the hate, vile words, and outright filth that goes on over there. Those people are on YOUR team...along with people like Hugh Hefner, Larry Flynt, and other immoral people.

In my view, and it's just that, but in my view, you are on the wrong side Matt. Is McCain my first choice, NO way, but would he do more to end abortion than Obama, no question he would. Please think long and hard before you pull that lever, pray and fast, if you still believe that Obama is best for you, than do what you need to do.

McCain has seen war, he has been in war, he knows war and I think that the notion that he would put people into harms way faster than Obama is false. Anyone who has experienced war, hates it more than someone who has not.

fetzer said...

Todd, I thought I would share the same response I wrote to Jason Ford who asked the exact same question. First let me state that I am opposed to abortion but there is much more to running the government than just this issue.

I have a growing concern that our government favors those who have money and power over the average person who doesn't have any influence. This seems in direct conflict with God's view of choosing the weak and the poor over the rich.

There are also other moral questions besides abortion. Some see healthcare as an equally moral issue as abortion. People's lives are put at risk when they don't have the same access to healthcare that you and I do. Without insurance, many people are driven into bankrupcty if they ever have a major illness. Is that moral?

Obama is more likely to spend money and send help to the people in Darfur who are being slaughtered. McCain is likely to see it as an African issue with little benefit to the U.S. Are infants who get aborted in America more important than women and children who are getting killed in darfur?

Another question is what do we do with the menally ill? I trust Obama more to pay for programs to help those folks whereas the traditional Republican response is to have them help themselves. Is it "biblical' to leave them to their own devices?

Many people see ending the war as equally moral as ending abortion. I don't agree with them but it is a legitimate concern and they can make a case based on the bible.

I guess my point is that it's not quite as black and white to simply vote for the pro life candidate. Nobody can make that case that our country as whole is better off because Bush was president. Was he pro life? yes. But abortion still takes place, meanwhile the economy is in the tank, people are losing their homes, their jobs and their life savings. Was that a good tradeoff?

Too me It's a matter of weighing the moral issues each of us consider important and then matching them up best we can with each candidate. For you and I, we place more weight on abortion while other Christians are more focused on other "social justice" issues like poverty and racism. I have to say I am growing more and more inclined to believe that the democrats are much more biblical on those issues than republicans. Niether party is fully in line with "biblical christian worldview".

I hope that helps explain why some Christians might vote for Obama. But to get a better response I would encourage you to sit down with a christian in your church who is voting for Obama. Not to argue or persuade but to listen and understand and respect their decision.

Aurabass said...

Hello Todd,

I am a lifelong Baptist from East Tennessee, an Eagle Scout, and college graduate with a year of law. I live in a Congressional District that has never elected a Democrat and I was Senate Page for Albert Gore Sr. in 1961.

I am a Democrat and I always will be.

It appears to me that Republicans like you are intent on protecting life from conception to birth and once a life is hooked up to a machine that sustains it. It seems to me that the Republican party does not care about life in between those extremes.

Conception occurs across the globe thousands of times a minute. A quick study of World Population Growth http://www.worldbank.org/depweb/english/beyond/beyondco/beg_03.pdf is helpful.

Abortion rates worldwide are also relevant to the discussion of population http://www.worldbank.org/depweb/english/beyond/beyondco/beg_03.pdf Abortion rates are highest in Russia, Eastern Europe and China.

We face a climate crisis brought on in great measure by rapidly increasing population. If you had your way and the world became Christian and all abortion stopped the growth of population would rapidly outstrip the ability of the planet to sustain life. This growth and the lack of food, medicine, and the possibility of rising sea levels would lead to incredible misery and death.

Man was endowed by the creator with intelligence. That intelligence should be used to reduce suffering and pain whenever possible. Republicans and the Bush administration stopped funding for birth control programs in developing nations on behalf of the evangelical right. Roman Catholics not only want to stop abortion they want to end birth control. Abstinence doesn't work. We both know that is true.

So we are faced with a fragile environment threatened by global warming exacerbated by population growth and a thin food supply. So what should we as intelligent beings do?

Back when the Catholic church decided which writings to include in what we now know as the bible the authors thought the world was flat and that the heavens rotated around the earth. They had no conception of an earth that could be populated to the point of catastrophe.

My wife and I are both spiritually aware, intelligent, caring people. We love our children. We are quite capable of determining the size of our family using our intelligence and available birth control methods. Although we have never had cause to do so we would be very capable of terminating an unwanted pregnancy if one occurred as a result of failed contraception.

Our belief is that person hood or 'sacred' life occurs when a soul is delivered to a human being. WE do not believe that happens at the point of conception. We believe that child God knows prior to birth is that soul.

If unplanned pregnancy occurred due to failed contraception we would pray, consult our physician and our pastor, speak with our children and make our decision about what is best for our family with God's help. If God tells us that we should have the child we will. If he does not we will make the best decision for our family.

That decision might make the difference in having the resources to care for a child with medical problems. It might make the difference in how much education we can afford for our children. There may be health concerns for my wife.

This is most intimate and personal event in the life of any family.

Yet you would intercede in our lives and tell us what we must do without any knowledge of our personal relationship with God and his son Jesus. You would impose your will based on your beliefs on our lives.

I believe God gave us choice and I reject anyone who would impose their will on our choice as if they and they alone knew the will of God.

Democrats are inclusive and tolerant as a rule. Our fiscal policies do not tend to redistribute more wealth to the very wealthy. We tend to do more for the poor and afflicted. And we believe that government should stay out of the bedrooms and spiritual/religious lives of the people. We believe people of many faiths and no faith at all should be free to believe whatever they wish in America. We do not want to live in a theocracy. I would never impose any law on you or yours based on my belief or religion.

That is how I can be a Christian and a Democrat and vote for the man who I believe will reverse the economic misery that has afflicted so many Americans due to the policies of the Bush administration. He lied us into a horrible war. He has tortured in our name. He has doubled our national debt and left it for our children. In my view John McCain has no policy that would change that.

John McCain divorced his wife after she was disfigured in an accident and married a beer heiress half his age with a 100 million dollar fortune. Barack Obama has a wonderful marriage to a fine intelligent woman and two beautiful children. You can see the love of that family.

Barack Obama overcame a broken family and a mixed racial heritage to succeed beyond all expectations on the strength of his mind and will. He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law and chose to work with the poor in Chicago and as a teacher. John McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy. He got into the academy because his father was an admiral.

I believe in intelligent leadership from people who care more about the people who need help than the oil companies, special interests, and corporations. That seems more Christian to me.

Barack Obama wants to reduce abortion by increasing education and prosperity. He wants to reduce the need for abortions. But he does not want Washington to make a decision best left to me, my wife, and my family that must be made with the counsel of our doctor, pastor and our God.

I believe in the Priesthood of the Believer. I do not require and intercessory or go-between to speak with God for me. God will reveal his will to me and mine in time of need or when such a momentous decision arises. I do not need or require your interference in our life. It's between us and God and that is how it should be.

I hope you can understand that.

Barry